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Issue 5 is in the building...
...but not for long, as I'm mailing it out now.
All for now. Was away at the UK's NEC trade show yesterday - will put up a report after the mags are safely out.
Posted on 05 March 2002
Your comments ...| From: Peter Eland ([email protected]) on 05 March 2002 |
| 6PM, Tuesday - am about to pedal the final batch of subscriber copies down to the post office. Just a few non-EU subscribers will have theirs sent out tomorrow, as I ran out of customs forms... Contributor, advertiser and bulk order copies will all go out tomorrow, too. |
| From: . (.) on 06 March 2002 |
| Waiting with eager anticipation, salivating with desire for the tasty morsels of cycling delicacies contained within... |
| From: John Shackford ([email protected]) on 06 March 2002 |
Peter, Well done-again!
Any Moulton, Brompton stuff for the coming issues, PLEASE.
All the best and keep on working hard, it is appreciated greatly. John..... |
| From: Frustrated of Yorkshire ([email protected]) on 06 March 2002 |
It's Wednesday 3:15 and my knees are getting sore kneeling by the letter box all this time.
Where is it? I can't wait much longer!
I'll go insane if I can't drool over all those lovely naked Birdy's.
Oh sorry wrong magazine. |
| From: . (.) on 06 March 2002 |
I believe Jim, that it's
"Nude Cyclist"
that you're thinking of. |
| From: Roger the Hilldodger (roger@spokesfest) on 06 March 2002 |
| Lord Elpus, your Butler, Blenkinsop, convied the contents of the last issue to you using the art of mime. Will he be doing so again? |
| From: Lord Elpus (Lord [email protected]) on 06 March 2002 |
| No. For this issue he'll be embroidering a tapestry. |
| From: Roger the Hilldodger (roger@spokesfest) on 07 March 2002 |
| Seamus, my copy arrived at 7.40am this morning. |
| From: Bob MacQueen ([email protected]) on 07 March 2002 |
| Just to confirm that it arrived about 7.30 this morning - and is half read already!! Excellent as usual. |
| From: John Shackford ([email protected]) on 07 March 2002 |
Arrived 9:00am 7th March. Good start to the day. Scanned all the magazine. Read some. I may just be going off the enthuisiasm I once had. I think this magazine might need renaming-Velo recumbents annoymous! More real biking needed here say I.
John....carrying on reading....its really not so bad once you get into it......or is it for recco riders only...yes I think so....Sorry! |
| From: Seamus ([email protected]) on 07 March 2002 |
If I were at all paranoid I'd think that Pete had my copy sitting on a shelf somewhere in his office and maybe, if I'm really lucky, he'll think about posting sometime next week just because I made those jokey comments, made in Byke Kultuur Never, about his middle names being Justin Winston or perhaps it's due to some other imagined slight.
Or maybe postman Tom Mason has 'borrowed' my copy....
|
| From: A.N.Onymous (sitting@work) on 07 March 2002 |
Magazine arrived this morning - only got a cursory flick through before leaving
for work, but looks fine. First impressions of the Cannondale repugnant are
waste of money' ...
To those who complain about the lack of folding/real biking'/whatever material
I say this:
* If you want A2B, you know where to find it.
* Magazines generally publish material which they have readily available,
unless they have extremely talented publishers. If your favourite subject
isn't covered, then it's probably because nobody has written or submitted
anything.
* If you're not prepared to rectify the shortage of material on your favourite
subject, shut up, otherwise put finger to keyboard, pen to paper, chisel to
granite block (etc.) and submit an article - the submission guidelines can
probably be found elsewhere on this site (try the FAQ)
Rant over ...
|
| From: Lord Elpus (Lord [email protected] ) on 07 March 2002 |
Here here to the above. Think the article by
Tamasine Gilbert is excellent. |
| From: mike ([email protected]) on 07 March 2002 |
No please, No, keep the Bromptons out of Velovision. I've got one and they are boring! The thought of yet another photo of a smug looking David Henshaw demonstrating how to fold the dam thing is just too much!
I have yet to see issue 5, it's hopefully keeping the door mat warm, but I like the items about how people use cycles, rather than the straight bike reviews.
That reminds me, I must remind Liz to take lots of nice pics of her special needs cycle day next month, and see if we can come up with something worthy of inclusion in VeloVision- http://www.croydon-lcc.org.uk/info/cycling_for_all.htm |
| From: Simon Ward ([email protected]) on 07 March 2002 |
A comment or three:
- Lack of 'real biking' material; it has already been said - either write
something and submit it through the 'usual' channels or stop whinging. I
don't think Pete is exactly drowning in material, so I suspect a well written
article would be welcomed. Also, if you desperately want material on
Bromptons, Moultons, folders etc. then you know where to get A2B. I know you
can't please all of the people all of the time, but endless moaning is
tiresome in the extreme.
- Bromptons; fine bits of engineering, but not my choice of machine for much
other than riding to work (and even then ...). Even so, the Brompton is the
model of stability compared to the Onza Mini Bike ;-)
- The Magazine; just had a read through - deeply unimpressed by the Cannondale
recumbent (not surprised at the OTT price though) but the article by
Tamasine Gilbert was very, very good (best article yet, IMO). I intend to
show said article to my sister, who suffers from multiple sclerosis, to try
and convince her that coordination/eyesight problems don't preclude her
getting out and about occasionally - it might also get through to her that
trikes aren't 'something that old codgers ride' (her words, not mine)
|
| From: Roger the Hilldodger (roger@spokesfest) on 07 March 2002 |
| Totally agree with Simon about Tamasine's article and I'll be using it to inspire others to have a go on our special needs bikes. |
| From: John Shackford ([email protected]) on 08 March 2002 |
To the above RANTERS!( and Peter of course)
Now read most of this issue. Very Good magazine but not really a specific target audience in mind? Bromptons, yes I like to see read or whatever. Moultons YES please! David Henshaw, well, I subscribe A-B but DO NOT agree with anything written politically. No not my favorite magazine but then neither is Velovision but somewhere in between lies the answer.Bycycle WAS the best I am sad to say.Please please lets have real biking and not natives producing drinking fountains a wire wheel models. Oh please lets talk cycling cycling riding modifying adapting using. Recumbenations go away! Just joking! Peter the magazine is good but NEEDS to be even better. I subscribed last time for one year against my better judgement following Open Roads demise. Make it for cyclists and not enthusiastic inventors. Kindest regards and happy cycling to all, John....... I await the flak!! |
| From: Simon Ward ([email protected]) on 08 March 2002 |
Maybe the magazine does need making better (nothing is perfect, after all) but
I've yet to see an article with Mr.Shackford's name attached to it - maybe
sniping from the sidelines is easier than actually doing something to redress
any perceived deficiencies in the magazine (ie. getting off your backside and
writing an article or two)
I do agree that Claude Marthaler's 'ethnology lectures disguised as articles'
are dishwater dull, though (the one in issue 4 about the racing team in Sierra
Leone(?) was the exception). More technical stuff *would* be nice, although
much of the stuff I'd write about is probably of little interest to Velovision
readers (eg. long distance riding on a fixed gear ...)
As for the target audience, I think the paragraph on the LHS of the homepage
sums up any potential target audience quite nicely. IMO, Velovision already
covers 'real biking' - for a given value of 'real'. What we do not need is
a clone of A2B or, Ghod forbid, Cycling Plus.
You pays yer money, you takes yer chance.
|
| From: Norti Rascal (AtHMP.com) on 08 March 2002 |
There aint enough articles on savin money. I wanna see articles on re-tensioning trouser clips and fixing old saddle bags.
Norti Rascal. |
| From: Seamus ([email protected]) on 08 March 2002 |
Bitch, bitch, bitch. I've not seen it yet and you don't hear me complaining.
The difficult part of producing any magazine is getting stuff to put in it. Sounds obvious but there's always folk out there ready to grumble but never do owt constructive. It's bloomin' writing stuff to demand and keep it interesting/informative/entertaining. I have enough problems writing my own guff for Byke Kultuur Never (and it's new location at http://uk.geocities.com/bykekultuur/never.html issue 11 out at the end of the month).
Look at how Ato B has gone from being a useful and interesting folding bicycle magazine to a ditchwater-dull transport magazine, they even admit some of that in their current edition.
Remember Recumbent Cycling Online GB, had high hopes but only ran to two issues. No material.
oops, got to go do some work now. |
| From: Ben ([email protected]) on 08 March 2002 |
Pete, I have a complaint too. We managed to get quite a bit of work done yesterday, until 11.30 when Velovision arrived (we have a lazy postman). Then nothing constructive for the rest of the day...
Ignore the critics - some of them will never be happy - and keep on producing what is definitely the best cycling magazine about.
All at Kinetics. |
| From: sue ([email protected]) on 08 March 2002 |
I can't really comment on the magazine - I haven't got round to doing more than flick through my housemate's copy - I liked the look of the Dutch Theme Park, especially the dodgems!
However, I have had a thought on retensioning trouser clips - a loop of strong elastic hooked round the little bent back bits on the ends... |
| From: . (.) on 08 March 2002 |
| So.....when are you going to update the Velovision website so that the current issue isn't issue 4? |
| From: Peter Eland ([email protected]) on 08 March 2002 |
| I'll change the front page right now, but the full 'online' version will be up in about a month, so subscribers get a good chance to read it before I give some of the content away for free :-) |
| From: mike ([email protected]) on 08 March 2002 |
I have now read the Tamasine Gilbert piece and can see what the others are raving about, it's
absolutely fantastic! This is inspirational stuff and well written. You just don't see this sort of
quality material in the normal cycling press. |
| From: Seamus ([email protected]) on 08 March 2002 |
BROMPTONS!
I can see it now, a Jason Patient photographic special; Bromptons in every possible colour combination.
There's no need to mention the gearing, ride qualities, folding, getting it trains or whatever 'cos it's already been done over and again. A big photo shoot of all the possible frame colours and combinations of front and back ends'd be really great though. Summat to be proud of. |
| From: Matthew Brown ([email protected]) on 08 March 2002 |
I hope Seamus was joking but think not.
If Pete's stuck for stuff he 'borrow' off dan's desk when he's not there. Er, Dan not there see, not Pete not there.
Matt
|
| From: La Di Da Gunner Graham (itainthalfhotmum.com) on 08 March 2002 |
| Brompton's, Birdy's, Moulton's - no one has mentioned the Bickerton ! |
| From: Norti Rascal (AtHMP.com) on 08 March 2002 |
Sue, I tried that but my foot turned blue.
Norti. |
| From: Nigel Smith ([email protected]) on 08 March 2002 |
Why all the pseudonym's?
Why can't you use your own name? |
| From: Hilldodger (roger@etc) on 08 March 2002 |
| Dpn't tell him Pike! |
| From: Tamasine Gilbert ([email protected]) on 08 March 2002 |
Wow! I never expected such enthusiasm for my first ever article! A real confidence booster. Thanks!
Tamasine |
| From: webauk ([email protected]) on 09 March 2002 |
I've only had about ten minutes to skim through the latest issue (which arrived this morning).
Is the Tasmine atricle the one about her tandem ride around Anglesy? If so, I'll add my vote to it being an excellent article - and a foxy looking author as well :-)
I'll try to read some more of issue #5 this evening. The forward/backward pedalling four-speeder looked, er.. fun! |
| From: david black ([email protected]) on 09 March 2002 |
| My issue didnt come till this morning! it must be a conspiracy. I really enjoyed this one, a good mix of reviews and bycycle themed stories. Having now read this collection of comments could you commission someone to do a series of articles about how to use up some of the old moultons in the world by making them into furniture or pedal powered fly swatters Look forward to issue 6 |
| From: Robert Thackeray ([email protected]) on 09 March 2002 |
| My copy arrived at last, I was beginning to think it was under the copy your saving for Seamus! I liked the two speed direct gears article, I must get out more. What have you got lined up for issue 6? |
| From: John Shackford ([email protected]) on 09 March 2002 |
Hello,
Whilst I do appreciate the hard work that must go into the production of this magazine, I am dissapointed that for £6:00 that goes to the purchase and delivery of it, it is not what I was actually expecting to see.
A magazine can survive if, and only if, the readers read and actually want to read, the actual contents therein.
I do subscribe to A-B but ONLY because the Bycycle team ripped me off and did one!
I want to support, I want to read, I want to have fun and enjoyment from my reading.
The magazine I took originally on a two issue sub. Then took two more. I then subscribed for a whole year.
I am usually waiting for A-B to arrive and whilst the Electric crap is all well and good for some, this A-B magazine is running away with its editor to who knows where, I just hope that Peter can hold out and get this magazine an all round target audience and not just the few who no doubt enjoy all things eccentric!
I am not a complainer in the least regarding the magazine, after all I have renewed for another year. I just hope I am able to renew again. I do not want to be left with only A-B, heaven forbid.
I and many others I am sure, wish to read a GOOD cycling magazine-not a political rag of transport theme.
All the berst to all of you, in particular the ones who know me!
John....... |
| From: Simon Ward ([email protected]) on 09 March 2002 |
You just don't get it, do you?
Magazines depend on material - if they don't have the material then the editors
can't print it. The lack of material on folding machines could be attributed
to either a) such machines are covered in other publiciations and/or b) Pete
hasn't actually received any material worth publishing - I'm sure he'd welcome
a lovingly crafted article. After all, it's not as if he's fighting to climb
over mountains of mailbags on the odd occasion I pop in to see him.
Like I've said elsewhere in this forum, I haven't seen an article with your
name on it - I look forward to reading one in issue 6, perhaps? Your output
here has shown that, despite your protestations to the contrary, you are a
complainer - you also seem to be in something of a minority but I'll let that
pass.
There's an element of risk in supporting any new venture, whether it's a
magazine or something else. Clearly Velovision doesn't satisfy your tightly
defined demands and you're obviously not prepared to take steps to rectify
that. Life's a bitch, eh?
As for myself, I don't own a recumbent or a folder but I'm broadminded enough
to take each article on its own merits rather than following the hordes who
prefer to read (insert name of mainstream cycling rag here).
|
| From: John Shackford ([email protected]) on 09 March 2002 |
A friend of Peter indeed-no wonder you are so vociferous in your messag.
I once wrote to C+ magazine and won letter of the month. The reason I won you might ask? The Editor at the time Dan Joyce said that the ONLY way a magazine could survive was-if readers complained and TOLD the magazine what they wanted!
Smoking a pie are you?
All good fun really, you know.
Seriously, I want a good read from my expenditure, which is a reason I read Trail mag, TGO, CTC mag, Cycling + but I admit my attention span with the latter after buying from issue no 1, is somewhat sadly losing its grip.
by the way I own a caravan!! Sorry.
All the best,
John..
I do get it actually......
|
| From: Murph ([email protected]) on 10 March 2002 |
> and many others I am sure, wish to read a GOOD > cycling magazine
Here's the crux of the matter - define "Good Cycling Magazine". Your definition (lots of moultons/bromptons/etc) doesn't exactly match mine (that it should include decent coverage of all cycles INCLUDING recumbents).
You simply can't be all things to all cyclists.
If I were to write up use of my eTrex on a bike then the piccies could be of a Kingcycle, the E2 tandem or - perhaps - the Brompton. You'd see the piccies and whinge despite the fact that the type of bike was irrelevant to the discussion of the merits or otherwise of the hardware. The same would apply if I wrote up my nice new radical trailer (assuming that it ever gets out of the garage...) excepting that I would have to point out that sadly I don't think I can hitch it behind my L5.
As you appreciate it comes to this - if you want different things in you either have to make fairly specific suggestions (more on Bromptons is not at all specific) or write it yourself.
|
| From: John Shackford ([email protected]) on 10 March 2002 |
Hi, Comments noted.
I use an E-trex mounted on my--Moulton!
Recumbents are not bicycles are they..
Brompton and similar types of bicycles are used by hundreds of people.
Unusual cycling articles-yes please.
Why do I buy magazines? Because I wish to read other peoples writings.
If I write an aricle myself, I certainly would not need to buy it.
Most magazines are based and sold on the purchasers desires surely?
I am NOT criticizing the magazine at all. I am simply asking for real cycling as transport articles rather than ALL oddball articles and recycled articles that might actually be found on the internet at no actual cost.
Bye-for now,
John..
|
| From: Adolphus Spriggs (tilting@windmills) on 10 March 2002 |
Recumbents are bicycles - those that have two wheels, at any rate. Recumbents
with three wheels are trikes. Duh! I think in the interest of balance the next
issue should have a huge pictorial feature on Bromptons and Moultons .... that
have been converted into recumbents.
|
| From: [email protected] ([email protected]) on 11 March 2002 |
Well folks, thanks for all the comments! It's rather nice to see that the magazine is stirring such strong opinions. I do take note of and value feedback like this, but as others have said, I can't please everyone all of the time.
I do try to strike a balance each issue, within the constraints of budget and materials available. Sometimes it'll tilt a little either way, but I do hope that each issue is full of quality material, the like of which you'd be hard-pushed to find elsewhere.
If anyone really does feel that the magazine doesn't match up to their expectations (I control the magazine, not the expectations!) then I'd naturally be happy to instantly refund the remainder of their subscription, no problem.
I have nothing against Brompton and Moulton by the way, and some features involving these are in the pipeline. Like any other product, they get covered when there's something new to report or when, for example, I get a story about Bromptons being used in some interesting way (as with the Cyclone Couriers story).
Nice to see the comments system active - thanks again to all. We'll shortly be removing the password system for the discussion board, by the way, which should help make that a bit more lively, too.
Cheers!
Peter
|
| From: Seamus ([email protected]) on 11 March 2002 |
I think that John Shackford is a pseudonym for Jimbo.
He's only bitchin' on here to wind-up Pete. |
| From: Simon Ward ([email protected]) on 11 March 2002 |
Just don't mention camper vans ...
(Go to groups.google.com and do a search the archives of uk.rec.cycling - Mr.Shackford is a very adept whinger)
|
| From: Peter Eland ([email protected]) on 11 March 2002 |
| Let's keep it clean: do debate the issues vigorously but no personal name-calling please. Otherwise I'll have to work out how to delete comments. |
| From: Peter Eland ([email protected]) on 11 March 2002 |
The camper van posting in question has now been deleted.
Seriously folks, impersonating someone is right out of order and quite apart from the potential upset caused (1) wastes my time trying to sort it out and (2) means that I have to consider some sort of password system instead of what is now a free, anonymous comments system.
If you value this system as it is - I certainly do - then please no more of this sort of thing. If anyone does notice any impersonation or other abuses going on, please email me straight away and I will endeavour to sort it out.
Peter |
| From: Peter Eland ([email protected]) on 11 March 2002 |
| This one's in the wrong place too - look up one. |
| From: Seamus ([email protected]) on 11 March 2002 |
OK. Sorry for saying that John is a peudonym for Jimbo.
Humblest apologies. Wrists considered slapped. It won't happen again.
Beware the Cookie Monster....
Seamus. |
| From: Matthew Brown ([email protected]) on 11 March 2002 |
Murph asks for a definition of, "a good cycling magazine."
Tricky. How about a few examples instead.
The original, "Bicycle Magazine," edited by Richard Balllantine. Quirky, offbeat, willing to embrace a eclectic overview of cycling. Top reviews included the first test of a mountainbike in a UK magazine and RB's personally imported recumbent. 1st issue sawed a bicycle into bits to examine quality of brazing. Solid tyres quote, "I would rather have apuncture every day of my life than use these tyres."
|
| From: Matthew Brown ([email protected]) on 11 March 2002 |
"Bicycle Action," pally use of recumbent racing with RB's Bluebell, far more interesting and exciting than his recent Velovision suggests, developement of mountainbiking racing and triathlon when other magazines ignored them.
New writers including York teacher Jim McGurn. Competition to win a Roulandt recumbent.
"New Cyclist" Jim McGurns first foray into a subscription only magazine with it's offbeat approach, a little greenish perhaps; vegetarianism and kiteflying. |
| From: John Shackford ([email protected]) on 11 March 2002 |
The ADVERT above for Camper van has NOT been placed by me. The VW in question I sold more than 2 years ago. The person who cloned my old e-mail has now been reported to Velovision by myself. The person in question is not and hopefully for him will never be known to me.
Thank you.
John- and I dso hope you have all enjoyed the fun until this person started this infringement of my personal time space and wellbeing. |
| From: Peter Eland ([email protected]) on 11 March 2002 |
| Sorry folks, my reply to this seems to have dropped into the place of the now-deleted camper van comment, not here where it should be. Just look up about five comments, read and obey. |
| From: Seamus ([email protected]) on 11 March 2002 |
| That's a good trick. I post a message and it appears not at the end but several places up instead. I wonder where this one'll go. |
| From: Murph ([email protected]) on 12 March 2002 |
Having read Mathew's suggestions for "good" magazines I then have to suggest that Velovision stands up reasonably well (*:
Murph |
| From: Frank ([email protected]) on 12 March 2002 |
I hoped that peter will going to the Fietsenrai
in Amsterdam and that the Velovision this time a little bit earlier in the beautyful dutch country is, but......... i am stil waiting. And waiting.
And waiting. :-)
I dont like waiting for my Velovision.
greetings from Holland |
| From: Peter Eland ([email protected]) on 13 March 2002 |
| Sorry Frank, I didn't got to the RAI this year. Possibly next time... and distributor Danny Siepman of Zephyr should have his copies any day now. |
| From: Span Tally ([email protected]) on 13 March 2002 |
| Re Matthew's suggestions, yay early (Richard Ballantine) Bicycle and early "Bicycle Action". Nay later (post-Ballantine) "Bicycle" and latter BA when it turned all mountain-bikey. Cautious thumbs-up to first half-dozen issues of "New Cyclist" i.e. before it turned into "Charity Ride Monthly" |
| From: Seamus ([email protected]) on 13 March 2002 |
I think it was about the first 14 issues of, "Bicycle Action," initially with Ballantine as an adviser and later as editor that were good. It then disappeared for a while before resurfacing as a magazine long advertisement for Muddy Fox mountainbikes who had bought the rights to the mag and ruined it.
Issues 1 to 5 of, "Recumbent UK," were quite excellent and put many professional publications to shame though there was a bit too much emphasis on trikes in issue 4 and 5. I, and a whole lot of other subscribers, never got to see issues 6 and 7 and issue 8 appeared to have been produced at home. Nice reviews of kit with, unlike many mainstream publications, a willingness to openly criticise. I still mourn it's loss though I've stopped hassling Richard Loke about it whenever I see him.
Jimbo's, "Bycycle," never really got anywhere except perhaps for the last issue with Jason Patient's brilliant 60mph Brompton article.
The CTC's magazine also seems to be jolly good now with Dan Joyce embracing writers from a less traditional arena; Burrows and Patrick Field spring to mind. |
| From: Kriss ([email protected]) on 13 March 2002 |
Maybe I am alone then in enjoying the 'sociology' articles (after all it is a mag about cycling culture). When was the last time you read anything about cycling in Africa? Or South America? It's not just about the technology but about how it's used and how it fits into our lives - not just how to fold a Brompton or UK transport policy. Expand your horizons... ;-)
... try to bear in mind that some of the writers don't have English as a first language; it is hard to revise someone's slightly 'unfluent' English without completely rewriting it and possibly compromising the intended meaning. The bonus is that you get things from a completely different perspective and it's stuff that you wouldn't be able to find elsewhere.
And well done Tamasine, great article, lovely pics, I hope you get to do it all again sometime when the weather is better.
Kriss |
| From: Rudi Jenner ([email protected]) on 13 March 2002 |
| Hi all, just like the suffering Dutch, Germany hasn't received VV5 yet, held back by KGB in Oldenburg. But as a compensation we've had a very entertaining comments section. Fine examples of British fairness ! I even learned some new words. I absolutely agree with KRISS, these sociology articles are interesting and make Velovision really different. Hope the postman doesn't hold it back any longer. Happy Cycling. Rudi Jenner |
| From: Sue ([email protected]) on 14 March 2002 |
Oh, dear. I watch the news, from Palestine to Belfast, via every trouble spot in between, and I think, if a relatively small group of the world population can't agree to disagree about what makes a good magazine, what hope is there?
Personally, I'd say: (a) Stuff on rides I could contemplate doing one day, (b) Stuff on amazing trips I could never imagine doing, (c) a few tips to make life easier, (d) stuff on new bikes, (e) stuff on old bikes, (f) stuff on people using
their bikes to make a real difference to their or other people's lives. Oh, and a hot gossip feature on how Harrison Ford really wants to settle down and live with an English female cyclist. Ok, I might not get it all in one, but I do enjoy
Velovision, just like I also enjoy Cycling Plus. Oh and sorry to Norti about the foot circulation problem - you must have access to some really strong elastic... |
| From: John Shackford ([email protected]) on 14 March 2002 |
Hello,
Firstly Sue, I agree entirely with your above message re trips etc etc,..
To David Henshaw, I trust that you noted that I told the real facts above regarding you and Brompton. Keep it up and since no Brompton test or report since...HOW long ago-get another quickly!
All the best to all and sundry and especially to Peter for his good sense and patience and hopefully good humour!
John.....
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