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Birdy manufacturers boycott US components
Riese und Muller in Germany say they won't be buying any more US-made components for their machines, as a response to the US attack on Iraq...
In translation, their press release reads:
**************
Last night George W Bush began the war against Iraq. We condemn this action in the strongest terms. As a consequence, the Darmstadt (Germany) based cycle manufacturer riese und mueller will, as of now, buy no more American components. Components in stock will be used up, and then replaced with components from other manufacturers.
We would like to thank our American suppliers for their good work with us in recent years, and would request that they communicate our boycott to their government.
Darmstadt, 20 March 2003
Markus Riese, Heiko Mueller and all of the staff at riese und mueller GmbH
**************
Posted on 20 March 2003
Your comments ...| From: . (.) on 20 March 2003 |
If only R & M had announced the boycott sooner we'd have never found ourselves teetering over the abyss towards war.
|
| From: ken davison (ginger.davison20002btopenworld) on 20 March 2003 |
I helped rebuild this country in the mid sixties
and yes the flower power movment did a lot to stop
that vietnam thing,but no matter how much the world protested about this latest conflict.we were all just passed over for the oil.the pirate |
| From: Stephen Bach ([email protected]) on 20 March 2003 |
| As a U.S. citizens who is outraged by what my government is doing, I hope the world boycotts the hell out of us. Money is what the people with the power respond to. |
| From: John Shackford ([email protected]) on 20 March 2003 |
If anyone really thinks its all about oil-then get your brains in gear! The volume of oil from Iraq is MINISCULE.
Have a look at my updated webpages.
Best regards from a supporter of OUR troops in conflict,
John.
http://www.pbase.com/john28july
|
| From: Joe ([email protected]) on 20 March 2003 |
| My words to R & M would be, "it can work both ways". |
| From: Ralf Grosser (Buzz [email protected]) on 21 March 2003 |
No one should agree, on the stupidity of the War that the George W. Bush is doing down in Iraq.
I just wonder, I dont see R and M using that many US made components in the first place.
Thist looks more like a publicity stunt, then a real effort to realy do anything against the war.
|
| From: Geoff Bird ([email protected]) on 21 March 2003 |
| I had a look at the Iraq War page on your website, John. It's not clear whether it reflects a desire to capture historic events or an interest in military hardware. I don't think using a phrase like "get your brain in gear" is very helpful in a discussion between intelligent people. Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world and it is close to the surface, making it cheap to get at. I think only time will tell whether oil is a reason for the US government starting this war but I find the reasons they ARE giving unconvincing and energy supply / consumption is the biggest medium term crisis facing the USA. |
| From: Frederik ([email protected]) on 21 March 2003 |
Not taking any stand on the oil issue, just wondered... (internet is great)
Iraq has about 110 billion barrels in oil reserves. Times lets say 18 US dollar per barrel
= roughly 2 trillion US dollar
Rather minuscule I would say...
To boycott bike parts... well I would have preferred SUVs ;-) |
| From: Steve watkin (s) on 21 March 2003 |
|
| From: Steve watkin ([email protected]) on 21 March 2003 |
| It's OK with me.............I'll just boycott R & M. Glad I got a B !! |
| From: Geoff Elliott ([email protected]) on 21 March 2003 |
| I agree with Ralf Groser. I prefer the Moulton anyway. |
| From: John Shackford ([email protected]) on 22 March 2003 |
Hello,
I have noted the comment above regarding my webpages. I have now added more to the questions and pictures will I think show the point I tried to make.
Best regards,
John.
http://www.pbase.com/john28july
|
| From: John Barnes ([email protected]) on 23 March 2003 |
| So let me get this straight. You have boycotted American parts suppliers because the American government is opposed to oppression and terrorism and has decided to do something about it... something your country would rather ignore. Brilliant. Let's hope the Iraqi fundamentalists don't decide to visit Germany. I'm sure your boycott will make a huge impact on the political process here in the U.S. Your parts suppliers have no doubt contacted their representatives and the war will stop immediately as a result. But wait, there's more. The U.S. parts suppliers also had to terminate their employees because of your idiotic boycott. Now, who committed this act of terrorism? Congratulations. |
| From: Sean Costin ([email protected]) on 23 March 2003 |
| There's a company in the U.S. that actually makes bike components? Just kidding. I guess there are still a few. Did you discuss the matter with your suppliers before hand perhaps they feel the same way? I think refusing to sell your products to the American market would convince me that you have serious intentions. Otherwise arent you being a little hippocritical by accepting the American "Blood money". |
| From: Matt (-) on 23 March 2003 |
| I have some questions to ask the people supporting this war. 1. why now? Bush Senior had the time. Even W. had time before 9/11. 2. Why Saddam? What about the other dozen or so dictators around the world that terrorise and kill people? 3. What about Bin Laden? If we truely want to revenge 9/11 why are we in Iraq? |
| From: Rainer ([email protected]) on 23 March 2003 |
Does the US government produce bike parts? Do French winegrowers have the power of veto in the UN? Are French Fries terrorists and all Americans hicks?
Why do we discuss that rubbish here? |
| From: Rudi Jenner ([email protected]) on 23 March 2003 |
| Basically this is not the place to discuss that stupid war. But presumably r & m have, as many Germans, very strong feelings of plain disgust about that fundamentalist oily president who claims to understand the world. Rudi Jenner |
| From: Todd Loewe ([email protected]) on 23 March 2003 |
Looking at the Parts specifications of Riese und Muellers product line, you will notice, that they do use one major part on the Birdy Blue by an American manufacturer.
This part, is the eight by three Hybrid-Hubgear .
This gear used to be made by Sachs in Germany, but now SRAM , in the US builds it.
Up until 2002 this gearing system had a toggle chain to shift the three speed hubgear.
The 2003 Birdy Blue now has a clickbox instead of the toggle, and this has caused problems folding the bike, because the box sticking out on the side is in the way of the front wheel.
Could it be, that the are phasing the SRAM out because of this?
Are they perhaps using the war, to save face, as an excuse for having botched up a product?
|
| From: Jim Hughes ([email protected]) on 23 March 2003 |
Why don't I see anything about this on the R & M web site...?
Let's hope the Japanese don't elect some right-wing crank - because then NOBODY could build a bicycle. |
| From: Ralf Grosser (Buzz [email protected]) on 24 March 2003 |
As far as I know, the asembly of the Dual Drive Hubs is not done in the USA, but in Schweinfurt Germany.
SRAM bought the place with the Hubgear patents from Sachs some years ago.
BTW most people I know in the staats, who work in the bike industrie, are not your Bushvoteing Republicans, but more the tie-dyed leftwing typs. |
| From: Peter Eland ([email protected]) on 24 March 2003 |
| Comment from Ivan ([email protected]) deleted. As others have said, please discuss wider war-related issues etc elsewhere, and please keep (cycle industry relevant) discussion here civilised. |
| From: Seamus ([email protected]) on 24 March 2003 |
| Isn't there enough about the war on the telly and in the press and evry pub and bus queue without bringing it up on a site about cycling too? |
| From: Seamus ([email protected]) on 24 March 2003 |
| Isn't there enough about the war on the telly and in the press and evry pub and bus queue without bringing it up on a site about cycling too? |
| From: mike ([email protected]) on 24 March 2003 |
There were lots of pedal powered people out on the streets on Saturday's big anti-war demo. I took the Brox and it's mini sound system, which couldn't compete with the Reclaim the Streets bike trailer with a deafaning sound system (unfortunately petrol powered ;~(. I also bumped into loads of LCC people.
The pedal cycle is an obvious vehicle for these war protests as it shows a willingness to break the link between oil and war in the middle east.
Some pedal power protest photos at http://cycling.gn.apc.org/ |
| From: . (.) on 24 March 2003 |
| Wanna bet that most folks that turned out for demonstration rallies worldwide came by car? |
| From: Tim McNamara ([email protected]) on 25 March 2003 |
| Seamus, I'm with you. This discussion does not belong on VeloVision's Web site. r+m made their decision, the rest of us can make our own for whatever reasons- whether we agree with r+m, disagree with them, whatever. There's other appropriate fora for this rather than burdening Peter's server. |
| From: Guy Wera ([email protected]) on 25 March 2003 |
***Most of this comment deleted -
please post war discussions, especially strongly worded ones, elsewhere please. Peter Eland***
I'm looking for info about a pedall powered kick ass sound system for raves, any precedents somewhere? Check out or search
"burrardfestival"
velolove to you all
|
| From: Ms.Bike ([email protected]) on 25 March 2003 |
| congrats to R&M for actually doing something rather than sitting idly by and letting the war happen. this discussion belongs on a cycling site because CYCLING can change things. this'll probably get deleted by this peter eland fellow but whatever...what can you expect? |
| From: David Rodgers ([email protected]) on 25 March 2003 |
| Cycling has political links in so far as being a factor for influencing transport and land use planning but has no links or bearing on war what so ever. War is caused mainly by diplomatic ignorance and theres naff all cyclists or manufacturers can do about it. Can everybody just get back to practical or amusing discussions about bikes? Leave war to the fools who think they know better. |
| From: brian ([email protected]) on 25 March 2003 |
| Question. If you go to the pub with your cycling friends do you talk cycling all night? To my mind message boards are a virtual pub, if everybody is civil I see no reason why any subject should not be open for discussion. Isn't that the way to build a community of cyclists? Sorry Pete but this board is so dry I'm off out for a drink. |
| From: Antony (at P dot I) on 25 March 2003 |
| Er... This isn't a message board. It's a news page on a cycling website. If it was my news page on my website, I'd have binned a lot more comments than Pete has! If you have something to say about the war, in either direction, I'd suggest you visit FaxYourMP.com (UK residents only). |
| From: Ralf Grosser (Buzz [email protected]) on 26 March 2003 |
Today I talked with a radio reporter from the Deutschlandfunk.
He had done an interview with R and M.
He told me that at R and M they had shown him the parts that R and M use from an American company. He ask me about the boycott, and about SRAM.
I told him, that SRAM manufacture the Dualdrive in Schweinfurt Germany and that they have a design centre there.
I also told him that in my opinion they are using the war as a convenient tool to save face after having problems with the folding of the Dualdrive equipped Birdy Blue.
I am absolutely opposed to any war but find it obscene to instrumentalise a war to get your company more media coverage.
(I also beleave in my right for free speach "Herr" Mueller!)
On the History of SRAM have a look under:
http://www.sram.com/about/history.asp
|
| From: Peter de Leuw (peter at birdy-freunde.de) on 26 March 2003 |
Ralf,
of course they produce the internal hubs in Germany. They produce parts in many countries. But this does not change the fact that SRAM is an US-Company. And most of the shifters used on the Birdy are from SRAM, not produced in Schweinfurt.
Glad to read that you are the only one in this world knowing the real reasons for r-m's decision.
Peter |
| From: Peter Eland ([email protected]) on 26 March 2003 |
Just in case anyone is thinking I'm against a healthy discussion here, I should say that the only comments I've edited or deleted are marked as such (none are censored 'silently') - and the parts I have deleted were either obscene, libellous or were, in my view, in danger of laying this site open to the UK criminal offense of inciting racial hatred. Some of what I've deleted was fairly nasty stuff. I know war is nasty stuff too - but strong arguments are more effective IMO than strong language.
Discussions on the rights and wrongs of r-m's boycott, and even wider use of cycles/cycling as political symbols or instruments is entirely welcome and some of the comments have been very interesting. |
| From: Ralf Grosser ([email protected]) on 26 March 2003 |
I do not know if I am the only one who knows why
R and M are not useing any more Dualdrives.
Fact is, the 2003 Birdy Blue had problems folding because it came with a Clickbox.
R and M after complaints from dealers sent out a letter asking them not to promote the Birdy blue untill a solution has been found.
This problem now has been solved with the boycott!
If R and M are boycotting the US because of the war does this mean they are also boycotting british products?
Pashley, Moulton, and Brompton are made in the UK.
BTW Taiwan is fully in support of US policy.
Are they the next who are being boycotted by R and M? |
| From: David Rodgers ([email protected]) on 26 March 2003 |
| If it became a trend to boycott bicycle products on the grounds of a manufacturer being based in a war mongering country, should we consider the actions of countries in past conflicts? For example; the Japanese did some appalling things in world war two so we shouldn't really be buying any Shimano stuff. The Italians were strong supporters of fascism so no more Campag, and when you consider the actions of Germany in two world wars it does rather lead to the conclusion we should stop buying Birdies. Or is this all a bit daft? |
| From: rob ([email protected]) on 26 March 2003 |
I'm not too keen on the plastic click box either.
My main concern is that is prevents use of Bobs Nuts to tow a Coz or Yac trailer.
Secondly it prevents the use of a BikeE turbo trainer, which happily climps around the metal fittings on older 3x7 hubs.
Anyone in position to raise such points with SRAM? |
| From: ken davison (ginger.davison20002btopenworld) on 26 March 2003 |
| what would we cyclists do with 2billion pounds.the cost of this conflict.ken davison |
| From: brian ([email protected]) on 26 March 2003 |
| Err, Antony, call it what you will, but this is a 'comments' page. It is difficult to comment on the news item under discussion without mentioning the war. Your surname isn't by any chance Fawlty is it? |
| From: Ralf Grosser (Buzz [email protected]) on 26 March 2003 |
I just had a look at the R and M WebPages.
They only have the announcement of their Boycott in the German language section.
They do not have any thing about this in English.
R and M only want to do business with US suppliers who are against the war and are asking them to announce this on their WebPages.
How do they expect anyone who does not read German to read about this?
AFAI K Peter translated the Boycott announcement for VeloVision himself.
What good is all this, if it does not reach people in the US in the first place?
|
| From: A (@p.i) on 26 March 2003 |
Basil, no, my surname isn't Fawlty. ;-)
I was merely pointing out the subtle difference.
However, if you insist... Anyone else see the money program tonight? Far from being "miniscule", Iraq's oil reserves are now the second largest on the planet (behind, the implication was, Saudi) and virtually every other oil producing area is now in terminal decline in terms of production, while new discoveries are falling year on year too.
So even if control of Iraq's oil is not the issue at the moment, the ability to at least buy it is.
The program also stated that on 10/11, the lovely Mr Rumsfeld advocated attacking Iraq immediately.
Make of that what you will, but the US currently imports something like 66% of all its oil and is in desperate need of ensuring an ongoing supply.
Which is a shame, because, in 10 to 20 years, the entire global production will be in terminal decline. Time to get rid of that 4 litre V8... |
| From: Span Tally ([email protected]) on 27 March 2003 |
Quoth Ken: "what would we cyclists do with 2billion pounds.the cost of this conflict".
Personally, I'd spend it on drink. |
| From: . (.) on 27 March 2003 |
| Drink and a new bike. Though probably not a Birdy ;-) |
| From: _!*•*!_ ( ) on 27 March 2003 |
| Is this whole war just a conspiracy by Peter to get a record number of comments? |
| From: Peter (peter at birdy-freunde.de) on 28 March 2003 |
Ralf,
r-m will use the parts in stock first before using alternatives. If they wanted to use the DualDrive any more by now, they could do so. They did not need a war to stop buying from SRAM, they could have done so earlier if they wanted to.
Do you think the website is the only way to communicate with their suppliers? Do you think they cannot tell the US suppliers about their boycott by (e)-mail or fax? |
| From: andy scaife ([email protected]) on 28 March 2003 |
2 Billion quid? I might be tempted to buy one of Avon Valley's customised Moulton Speeds, but where would I find the rest of the money?
Alternatively, I'd probably spend most of it on Beer, Women and pizzas, and the rest I'd just squander (thanks be to George Best for that one). |
| From: Ralf Grosser ([email protected]) on 31 March 2003 |
Last night "Herr" Mueller was on German TV.
He told the uninformed publik that R and M are the company who are boycotting the US.
We now know that his is just a campain to get R and M media coverage.
This makes me puke!
Who uses a war to do bussines ist not high on my list of people.
THey hardly have any components from the US in the first place.
They are trying to save face on the misinstallment of the SRAM Dualdrive in the Birdy BLue.
Shame on you "Herr" Mueller.
Ralf |
| From: Seamus ([email protected]) on 31 March 2003 |
Well that does it for me!
I am definitely not now going to buy a Birdy!!! |
| From: Gunnar Fehlau ([email protected]) on 31 March 2003 |
Dear Ralf Grosser,as a matter of fact I am wondering what rm should have done not to be misunderstund by your fundamental point of view. What does it tell to us, when Heiko is on TV. I do know the media biz very good. And it isn´t such a "monocausal-principle" like doing a boykott as a very little company and getting media-coverage). I have done PR for rm for three years and I can tell you a TV coverage is not worse much, because rm needs to get in contact with a specific kind of people and not with the mass.
However, I do think the way you talk negative about rm since I have heart your name the first time and the way you "fix" the facts fitting to your "theories" talks for itself (right grammar?).
BTW. I guess the boycott should be seen as a sign of some people of the bikebiz that are totally unhappy about whats going on and try to do something in decissions they could influence.We all know we can not talk to Bush, but we could send a sign atleast to ourself in order to tell our children later: "but we have done something.However it did not influence the history"! |
| From: Ben - Kinetics ([email protected]) on 01 April 2003 |
| In all my dealings with R&M, they have been very good about admitting when they get things a bit wrong and fixing them - I very much doubt that this is some underhand scheme to stop using DualDrives! |
| From: Erv Lichterman ([email protected]) on 03 April 2003 |
| It really galls me that a company in a country who's butt we saved in WWII has the audacity to question the deposing of a dictator who is just about as bad as the one we saved them from. Just think, if we hadn't given up 45,000 American lives in WWII we wouldn't have to be putting up with this meaningless R&M boycott. Stop selling products in the US see if I care. I'm buying a Bike Friday. Pass the word on to your French friends. |
| From: Ralf Grosser (Buzz [email protected]) on 03 April 2003 |
Thank you Gunnar Fehlau for telling me about fixing facts.
Take notice if you read these comments, that I am not alone in my opinion about this so-called boycott .
Are other people who do not adree with R and Malso fixing the facts?
BTW when you were on R and Ms payroll you were also writing for the bike magazines Radmarkt and Aktive Radfahren, you of course never would have bitten the hand that feeds you, but always only gave R and M positive reviews because their products were so good.
|
| From: Peter Ravenscroft ([email protected]) on 04 April 2003 |
| I personally get my bikes off the local tip; there is a steady supply. However, as a complete outsider to the seriouds bike world, and a boycott- pusher to boot, I would like to point out that if you surf the web re anti-war boycotts, the effort put up by RM really has made waves. It is seen by those opposed to the war as yet another instance of cyclists and their industry being a touch better folk than the average. Tough, but you will have to live with it. |
| From: Ben - Kinetics ([email protected]) on 04 April 2003 |
Not going to get into a debate on the war - this isn't the place. But it's obvious that Markus and Heiko feel very strongly about this - otherwise they wouldn't run the risk of offending people in one of their biggest markets.
It's good that some companies still seem to be run by real people, not faceless corporate suits. |
| From: gunnar fehlau ([email protected]) on 04 April 2003 |
Dear Ralph, it starts boring to correct you mistakes all daylong... but because it´s relating my person I take the time to do. I started working for rm an 1.7.99 did you read an article written by me after that date in a bicycle magazin which content was about testing bike? If so, would please have the goodness and send a copy to me, because I haven´t seen one yet.
It may not fit to the picture you made yourself about rm and people working/worked for rm, but to me moral made me stopping journalism asa I started working PR at rm (beside from the book project "1000 Tipps for bikers".
BTW: The worest Delite yellow test written ever was published in "aktiv Radfahren" by Gunnar Fehlau... |
| From: paul mumford ([email protected]) on 04 April 2003 |
I find comments from our American cousins interesting.How long do we have to be grateful to them for their aid in ww2?An illegal war/ invasion? is what the US and UK are involved in.Economic boycotts work.Money is what the USA understands.Oil is what it needs,to keep God knows how many cars moving and happy.How much of this is revenge for the twin towers etc?
Serious cyclists are thinkers.When we stop thinking,and debating we will give in to the juggernaut of Global Trade and the Coca Cola Economy. |
| From: Mike Austin ([email protected]) on 06 April 2003 |
| Greetings...!Re: Span Tally 27/3/2003..Wrong! Not 2 billion..But 2 & 1/2 Trillion... But Hey!..'Phuck War' Let's Cycle.. |
| From: Span Tally ([email protected]) on 07 April 2003 |
2.5 trillion? Even better. Spend it on *lots* of drink!
uck Wa
Span |
| From: Dave Walker ([email protected]) on 07 April 2003 |
It pleases me enormously that Mr Lichterman's brave defenders of freedom have atoned for being years late for the First and Second wars by being really punctual for this one. Thanks guys!
My calculations might be wrong but I think 2.5 trillion pounds would buy a 400quid bike for everyone on the planet. That'd be nice. |
| From: Peter Schroepfer ([email protected]) on 09 April 2003 |
| I would trust Birdy's intentions if they decided to stop exporting their bikes to the US, UK, and AUS. They'll sell at us but not buy from us? Such imperialism! |
| From: Antony (again) on 09 April 2003 |
> I would trust Birdy's intentions if they decided to stop exporting their bikes to the US, UK, and AUS. They'll sell at us but not buy from us? Such imperialism!
I think that misses the point in that it assumes all UK / US / AUS people are in total agreement with their respective Governments.
Quite clearly any UK / US / AUS citizen who disagrees with the R&M boycott of US products is NOT going to be buying anything from R&M anyway, thus R&M will not be taking their money, prefering instead to buy from someone else, possibly a "home" producer.
Any UK / US / AUS citizen who agrees with the boycott and is in the market for such a machine would quite possibly want to support the company and its boycott; therefore if R&M stopped selling to the UK / US / AUS markets they would be boycotting their own boycott, so to speak. Which wouldn't make a lot of sense, plus it would force the prospective customers to buy from someone else, quite possibly a US company, which is completely the opposite of what R&M's boycott is all about!
Boycotts such as this are obviously NOT designed to "punish" the citizens of a country but to make a statement, however much or little difference it may ultimately make. |
| From: Antony (yet again) on 09 April 2003 |
PS. 2.5 trillion dollars? (little finger in corner of mouth)
It would certainly buy a huge amount of drink. Particularly if the drink in question was clean water, when it would quite probably secure safe supplies to the entire global population, with plenty of change left over to start on some more radical ideas, like, maybe, food, shelter and education.
Just a thought.
|
| From: Alex Shapiro ([email protected]) on 10 April 2003 |
| As an American consumer, I hereby boycott R&M and will not be purchasing a German product due to this company's political views. Long live democracy. |
| From: Dave Minter ([email protected]) on 10 April 2003 |
| I think some of you have got your timing a bit wrong. This story started before April 1st but most of these comments must be jokes. They certainly can't be taken seriously. |
| From: Mike ([email protected]) on 10 April 2003 |
R&M should stick to making bikes - not getting into politics. Like many I've reluctantly concluded that the war was the only way of getting rid of the muderous tyrant, Saddam Hussein. Pathetic little protests like R&M's only helped to keep him in power.
I'm even more thankful that my small-wheeled bikes are a Moulton APB (British) and a Bike Friday (USA). |
| From: Mike ([email protected]) on 11 April 2003 |
Whatever R&M might say it is NOT actually following the boycott. Probably the best multi-gearing gearing solution for small wheeled bikes like its Birdy range is the SRAM Dual Drive system developed by the SRAM Corporation of Chicago.
All the main manufacturers of bikes like this, Dahon, Bike Friday, Moulton and R&M use Dual Drive on at least one of their ranges because there is no obvious alternative product.
It is fitted as standard on the Birdy Blue.
If R&M are serious about thr boycott they are going to have to stop selling this model?
They are still promoting it on their web-site.
|
| From: Ralf Grosser (Buzz [email protected]) on 11 April 2003 |
Sorry Mike but you are wrong about SRM haveing developed the DualDrive.
It was developed by Sachs in Germany, and was sold as a 3 by six gear, and before as a 2 by 6 called the Sachs Huret Comander Orbit.
They bought it with the rest of the Company when they accuireed the bikecomponent devision of Sachs in the late eightys.
They did not develope it themselves.
For more history on this have a look at SRAMS Website under history.
The hubs other parts are still made in Schweinfurt Germany, and also in Hungary.
They also still have a R and D department in Germany.
BTW the war in Iraq is just about over. History will decide if it was a just war or not.
Back to more importent issues then a Pathetic protest like R and Ms.
The world will have to see to the wounds of war being healed, and for the Iraqee people having a future.
But for this, this unimportent (no offence!)cycling page is not the right place.
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