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Trek USA to investigate the QR/disc-brake wheel pop-out theory


First industry reaction from a major manufacturer...

This follow-up story comes courtesy of the UK cycle trade website BikeBiz. See also our previous story on the subject.

Orbit in the UK has already said it will modify its disc-brake equipped bikes and now Trek's legal eagle in the USA has told BikeBiz.co.uk he will "definitely talk to the relevant vendors and take a look at this issue." What's needed are lab tests but even the proponent of the wheel pop-out theory doesn't believe the supposed problem can always be replicated away from the dirt. So, is it just a problem with sub-standard skewers and soft drop-outs, a problem easily solved, or should bike trade execs be banging tech-heads together to find out if the problem is more widespread?

Bob Burns, Trek's US-based General Counsel, has read the BikeBiz story from earlier this week and has agreed to investigate Annan's theory further. Trek is the first major company to agree to such an undertaking.

Burns reports that the Trek warranty department has had no reports of the kind of equipment failure described by Annan, the Scottish climate research scientist, based in Japan.

However, Annan says the problem he describes is usually mis-diagnosed as 'pilot error', in other words riders not fastening their QRs correctly. Because of the mis-diagnosis risk, Burns agreed to probe.

"Trek has not seen this, but [we] will be making inquiries of the relevant component manufacturers," Burns told BikeBiz.co.uk.

"Virtually all 'defective quick release' claims that I have seen relate to an improperly used quick release. Either the consumer has ridden with the QR open; ridden with the QR closed like a wing nut (rather than closing it over the cam); or ridden with insufficient tightness to the adjusting nut to engage the cam. You can generally determine this by examining the dropout surfaces, which will show the marks left behind as a consequence of he loose clamp force.

"We take great pains in our owner's manual to explain how to use a QR, as do most good cycling books."

Annan says this is all well and good for rim-brake set-ups but QR skewers may not be strong enough for disc-brake equipped bikes pushed hard and fast by enthusiast riders.

Bike boffin

BikeBiz.co.uk has shown Annan's calculations to Gil Bor, an Israeli professor of mathematics at the Centro de Investigación en Matemáticas (CIMAT) of Guanajuato, Mexico. As well as being an expert in differential geometry and mathematical physics (see Bochner formulae for orthogonal G-structures on compact manifolds, (with L. Hernandez). Diff. Geom. Appl. 15 (2001) 265-286), Bor is a cyclist.

He's going to be doing his own calculations over the next few days but believes Annan's calculation misses a few points:

"If you look at his calculation, there are actually two forces felt by the axle: the first is that 1825N acting down along the fork, pulling the axle out of the fork; but there is a second force, which he considers irrelevant and therefore ignores, of about 890N, acting on the axle in a backwards (and slightly downwards) direction, perpendicular to the fork.

"Now one can argue that this force is relevant, for example for increasing the friction between the axle and the drop out, thus increasing the holding power of the QR mechanism."

Annan disputes this and says that many bike techies and trained engineers have failed to find faults with his calculation.

Bor, however, doesn't feel splitting mathematical hairs is the way forward. He calls for testing.

"The way to decide if this is something to worry about is not by calculations but by making a simple experiment. It should be relatively easy to take a bike to some industrial lab, apply forces and see what happens."

Lab conditions

Annan agrees this is necessary but doesn't think the theory he proposes will be proved or disproved under "artificial" conditions:

"I suspect it would be possible for someone who does not have a good feel for the problem to incorrectly generate a negative result, by not accounting for one of the possibly important factors. Bumpy ground, vibration and intermittent braking may all be significant.

"For that matter, given the apparent rarity of the failure, it might take a lot of testing before it shows up. There is no doubt that the failure has been clearly seen in the field."

Oz perspective

John Stevenson, the former tech ed of MBUK and now on the editorial staff of Australia-based Cyclingnews.com, also wants to see lab testing but has similar reservations to Annan.

"Designing lab tests that usefully simulate what happens in the field is hard," Stevenson told BikeBiz.co.uk.

"Cracking this problem is going to take a combination of very careful examination of crashed parts, looking for scrape marks on drop-outs that indicate a hub being dragged from the drop-out while still under tension, ; arithmetical modelling and lab testing.

"I'm reminded of something Mike Burrows once said to me. 'Giant's downhill bikes last forever on the test rigs; they break under [Rob] Warner.'"

Even though testing to prove or disprove Annan's theory will take some time, Stevenson believes it's essential. And the bike trade shouldn't dismiss the theory out of hand.

"Ostrich attitudes from the bike industry won't help," warned Stevenson.

Posted on 15 May 2003

Your comments ...


  • From: Antony Hawkins (at Pedalcars dot Info) on 15 May 2003
  • Jon Whyte has already proved that you *can* have a secure, easy-to-use and quick-release wheel fastening system.

    About time the 12mm axle was consigned to history for off road bikes!


  • From: Ralf Grosser (Buzz Starkbierat aol.com) on 15 May 2003
  • My advise as a Cyclist and bike tinkerer of 30years on bikes is: add dirt, dust road grit, and some lubricant from the ball bearings.
    Also use a QR. and a set of dropouts that have been opened and closed several times. A slightly bent axle will ad some reality, as an uneven worn Caliper will also. What about slightly worn forks?
    Bikes get mileage!
    Keep in mind, bikes are ridden and used, not pampered in a sterile lab environment.


  • From: N. Lenderby (Mrs) ([email protected]) on 15 May 2003
  • Professor Bor has a point - the frictional force caused by the perpendicular component at the dropout is neglected in James' calculation.

    However, James' point is still valid. This is obviously a situation that falls outside the circumstances for which a quick release skewer was designed, and merits investigation.

    N. Lenderby (Mrs)


  • From: Guy Chapman ([email protected]) on 17 May 2003
  • Having discussed this with James at the time I agree with his fundamental point, that disc brakes can (and under certain circumstances therefore will) cause QR wheels to release from the dropouts. If I recall correctly the case which started James thinking related to a tandem fork, where the dropout was aligned in a way which even basic mechanics suggests will make this kind of incident much more likely.

    Whatever your view on James' hypothesis, it is absolutely right that fork and disc brake manufacturers should be investigating this. The geometry of disc brake systems is fundamentally different from that of rim brake systems, and this is unquestionably not reflected in the dropout angles of available forks. Until James made his comments nobody was seriously looking into this, so I congratulate him on a job well done.


  • From: Ralf Grosser ([email protected]) on 18 May 2003
  • I had a look at an Ostrad recumbent with discbrake and a sprung fork.
    The forks dropouts had a rim section around the dropouts. This means that the quickrelease when closed does not hold the axle in place only by friction, but also is held by formfitting.


  • From: Ralf Grosser (Buzz [email protected]) on 22 May 2003
  • After haveing heard about Diskbrake Popout I have inspected about a dozen bikes with Disks and QR.
    I found that a third of them had forks with a rim around the QR, or even a recessed section around the dropout.
    On these Forks zou can only remove the wheel if zou have the quikrelease open all the way.
    Even with an only slightly tightend QR. you can not remove the wheel.
    The wheel the ist held in by formfitting an not just friction.
    Recessed sections or rims around the QR look like a good and simple idea to have on bikes even when not useing disks.
    The problem is noting is foolproof.
    They always find a bigger fool.


  • From: John Neugent ([email protected]) on 23 May 2003
  • I believe I have a solution using my new lever and a set screw on the adjusting nut. In the US virtually all forks now have bosses that keep the wheel in when the qr is open - which is a good thing but makes the quick release a slow release. My new skewer opens outside the fork bosses by using a long travel cam. I get away from the safety problem by putting locking indents on the cam so a button has to be pressed to open it. By adding a set screw to the adjusting nut, it would prevent it from loosening caused by the disc brakes. If you want to check out the skewer go to www.neuvationcycling.com


  • From: Peter Eland ([email protected]) on 23 May 2003
  • John's been in touch with me and we should be reviewing his skewers in Issue 11.

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