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VV discussion
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Author: steve green (---.server.ntli.net)
Date: 27-01-2005 22:20
I think that the trike format is more logical than the bike. How about that for opening a can of worms?
I've ridden a bike for far longer than I care to remember, and find that the Safety bike position feels completely natural to me. I'm happy to carry on riding thus.
However, I'm most certainly NOT anti recumbent. I've even gone so far as to try three recumbent bikes and one trike. I've had absolutely no success at all with the bikes. One reason is lack of experience in balancing: a recumbent bike falls over more quickly than a Safety. Also, I'm very tall, so the difference in seat height (from the ground) is more marked for me. I think that my leg length didn't help, making it necessary for me to sit too far back. The closer the center of mass is to the rear wheel, the more unstable the bike is.
Given these problems, it was a pleasure to try a trike, which, athough it too, didn't fit me, was immediately rideable.
I have'nt given up on the recumbent bike idea yet, but I think that I would consider the trike very carefully.
Comments please.
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Author: Arch (---.york.ac.uk)
Date: 28-01-2005 08:57
Well, I've not ridden a recumbent over a long distance, but I think I would go for trike. I've managed bikes, and enjoyed the feeling, but I think I feel that if you're going to have something as comfortable as a recumbent, it may as well go the whole hog and have three wheels, so that you really can just sit in it without balancing.
(Ah, I'm apparently making my bike choice based on what it's like when NOT moving...)
Yes, for the extra stability at slow speed, and the occasional chance to throw it round a corner, I'd choose a trike.
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Author: Roger the Hilldodger (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 28-01-2005 09:24
and a trike would be better for towing a pedal boat.
Roger the Hilldodger
The world's most handsome cycling historian. Probably.
Leicester's 4th best Les Gray impersonator.
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Author: hpvfriend (---.bahnhof.net)
Date: 28-01-2005 17:09
Two or one wheel if I must choose. Three is for children!
Jan-Inge HPV Sweden
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Author: Andhar Wheel (---.access.uk.tiscali.com)
Date: 28-01-2005 17:58
I have ridden 115 miles across Holland on my Hurricane and a 100 hilly miles in Aberdeenshire.
I have done similar miles on a windcheetah. The difference is balance up hills when tired. It doesnt matter on a trike. Also trikes dont fall over in ice and snow, rain etc. I dont know if there is any real difference in speed between the two. Both are equally fun.
Andy
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Author: steve green (---.server.ntli.net)
Date: 28-01-2005 18:21
Roger, on the way home this afternoon I found myself wandering about the possibilty of an amphibious velomobile. I must get out more.
hpvfriend, I have it on good authority that we are only young once, but we can be immature all our lives! That suits me. Further, in the nineteenth century, tricycles were thought to be very suitable for the gentleman of mature years. Which I am (old, not a gentleman)
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Author: Roger the Hilldodger (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 28-01-2005 19:29
There was an article in BCQ(?) about a Finnish ampibious trike built in the 50's.
Roger the Hilldodger
The world's most handsome cycling historian. Probably.
Leicester's 4th best Les Gray impersonator.
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Author: Gary Mc (---.ispnetbilling.com)
Date: 28-01-2005 23:14
I originally bought a long wheel base, 2 wheeled recumbent, the Rans Stratus. It took me about 1000 miles to really get comfortable enough to ride it in a lot of traffic, due to a different feel of balance compared to the upright. If I lived in a flat area, I would still be riding the Stratus as I really liked the bike.
I live instead among mountains. The low speed balance on the Stratus was always a disadvantage on long or steep climbs. After 3500 miles, replaced it with a Greenspeed Trike, which I have had for about 7500 miles. With low gearing and no balance issues the trike has opened up many rides to me up the local canyons. It was a good move for me.
Regards,
Gary
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Author: Tom (---.park-s46b.dslaccess.co.uk)
Date: 29-01-2005 10:39
Whilst I wouldn't argue with the stability and deckchair advantages of trikes, have any of you played with CWLB bikes like the BikeE, Flevo and Spirit? These have a higher CG than low slung speed oriented machines, and direct steering, and can trickle along with crawling traffic happily. And if you want a deckchair, just lower your legs!
---Decades behind, but moving fast---
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Author: Gary Mc (---.ispnetbilling.com)
Date: 29-01-2005 13:18
There is another recumbent rider in the area that started with the Bike E and he climbed several mountain passes. He rode a century over a series of passes including "Big Mountain" which is about a 3400 ft elevation gain in 15-20 miles. He said the Bike E had great balance capabilities.
He cared less Bike E's road capabilities and went on to buy a Rans Stratus after test riding mine for a bit.
My legs were a bit short to try his Bike E.
Regards,
Gary
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Author: steve green (---.server.ntli.net)
Date: 29-01-2005 18:52
Tom's point is worth considering: of the bikes, the CLWB designs LOOK more accessible to me. I also like the look of the Easy Racer range.
Bear in mind that I'm working in a state of ignorance a far as recumbents are concerned. Probably the best course of action would be to go on a weekend course. I'd then be in a better position to decide.
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Author: Tom (---.park-s46b.dslaccess.co.uk)
Date: 29-01-2005 19:24
Lot to be said for it! ;-)
I took one of CofC's BikeE's to Buttermere for a weekend once, and was amazed at the way I could cope with thrashing away via the 3X7 whilst making slow progress up some very steep slopes indeed.
CLWB format is a good one for round-town, shared use bikes, and also a good bridging or training format; it can help to get you acclimatised to the perceived 'twitchiness' of 'bents, so that when you try a long wheelbase with indirect steering, or an SWB with a very reclined position, you are a bit more at home and better primed.
---Decades behind, but moving fast---
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Author: hpvfriend (---.bahnhof.net)
Date: 30-01-2005 09:49
Bike or trike? This have troubled my mind a lot! I cant choose. I have both and I think you should have that too. Why choose when you can have it all! Take some unicycles too and why not some fourwheelers. When I'm riding my threewheeler I claim you and I should have a twowheeler and viceversa. I like all sorts of cycles!
Jan-Inge HPV Sweden
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Author: John Turvey (213.78.163.---)
Date: 30-01-2005 16:24
If I could only have one, I would have a recumbent trike - mind, recumbent bikes have advantages at time (such as greater speed or need less space) but for pure fun and practicality, I would chose a trike everytime. What I would NEVER do is go back to riding an upright bike as they are so uncomfortable compared to a properly designed cycle.
John Turvey
(Owner of 3 recumbent trikes, 6 recumbent bikes and one upriight bike (a Brompton))
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Author: Gary Mc (---.ispnetbilling.com)
Date: 31-01-2005 00:15
Quote: "What I would NEVER do is go back to riding an upright bike as they are so uncomfortable compared to a properly designed cycle.
John Turvey
(Owner of 3 recumbent trikes, 6 recumbent bikes and one upriight bike (a Brompton))"
And yet you still own a Brompton. There is a significant disadvantage in taking recumbents on public transportation. Like you I prefer a recumbent: three or two wheels. Still I just ordered a Dahon folder for the ability to take it with me. Now, I have to readjust to riding the iron maiden.
Regards,
Gary
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Author: BenKinetics (---.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
Date: 31-01-2005 10:19
I think it depends on what you want to do with it:
Bikes: good for city riding, as you're higher and have better visibility. Fast, often have full suspension, very manouverable.
Trikes: fantastic fun - like a go-kart with pedals. Good for "open road" touring, carrying lots, and good for hills as you can stop for a rest.
I must have taught hundreds of people to ride recumbents by now - recumbent bikes are not intrinsically harder to ride than upright bikes. What is sometimes tricky is letting go of the subconcious things you do on an upright - relaxing is the key! But the only people who I have not got riding within 10 minutes are the ones who had already convinced themselves that they couldn't do it...
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Author: Arch (---.york.ac.uk)
Date: 31-01-2005 10:35
Steve said..."Roger, on the way home this afternoon I found myself wandering about the possibilty of an amphibious velomobile. I must get out more. "
Have a look at this. (I think it may already have been posted on this foum somewhere...)
http://www.autocanoe.com/
You can launch straight off a slipway...
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Author: Jojo (---.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
Date: 31-01-2005 12:45
One of the greatest advantages of my trike is the amount of respect other road users give me, I am treated as a large road object even though I am perhaps only six inches wider than a conventional bicycle with rider. cars and lorries give me loads of room. I can also dive off the road and onto the verge if need be without injury!!
However the disadvantage of being so low down is a safety concern, though reflective tape , high visability patches on the streamer fairing and a tall flag offset this problem for me.
In high winds (I live in Orkney) the trike sticks to the road like glue, I cycle in winds up to a force 8.
Load carrying on the trike and towing a trailer is far easier than a bicycle.
My recomendation for utility use will always be a trike.
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Author: Seamus (---.force9.co.uk)
Date: 31-01-2005 19:22
Got a bent bike but I'd prefer a trike.
I used to be concerned about publics reactions but it's so bad around her eagin recumbent bikes I can't really see how it'd be any different from how it is now.
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Author: John Turvey (213.78.120.---)
Date: 31-01-2005 20:42
QUOTE "And yet you still own a Brompton. There is a significant disadvantage in taking recumbents on public transportation"
Actually I own 2 Bromptons - the upright one and a second one with the Neuss recumbent conversion - I use the upright one for short local trips where I would otherwise have to leave my cycle outside (not something I do) and I use the recumbent Brompton for longer trips involving eg trains and cycling where I will not be folding it more than twice a day - it takes me at least four times as long to fold the recumbent Brompton compared to the upright Brompton, and even longer if I am carrying luggage, and it is heavier, so can only be carried for short distances - still, it makes a very ridable bike (as long as I am prepared to push it up hills) and I have done many rides of 50 miles (longest was about 80 miles). On my upright Brompton I once rode it 25 miles (this was before I got the recumbent one) and swore never to attempt something so painful again.
On another matter, I find riding recumebent trikes is MUCH safer than riding my upright Brompton, even on busy urban roads - there is a busy duel carrigeway near my home which I regularly cycle along on my Trice Micro (it is hard to get much lower than this) - just before Chistmas I rode along this road twice on my upright Brompton and was horrified by the bad - NO - downright dangerous - driving I suffered from from motor vehicles when on my Brompton - on my Micro I had found this to be a perfectly safe road to cycle on.
John Turvey
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Author: Arch (---.york.ac.uk)
Date: 01-02-2005 08:57
Yes. On a Brompton you are just another cyclist, and therefore virtually 'invisible' (no matter how many lights or acres of hi-vis - it's a mental thing, not a matter of eyesight). On a recumbent, or for that matter a penny-farthing, or even an upright trike, you're a weirdo, and noticeable.
On the subject of high-vis, my friend who owns a horse showed me her hi-vis horse blanket. Blimey, I needed sunglasses, there was just so much of it. It led me to wondering if anyone had ever thought of creating a super-cycling-cape, covering not only the rider but extending over the bike as well, almost to the ground. You'd have to have mudguards and bits of framework to stop it catching in the wheels of course. And you'd look weird.
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Author: Tony Smith (---.cosh.broadband.ntl.com)
Date: 01-02-2005 13:59
I'd love a trike, seems very practical and great fun in the winter and just the thing for high winds and all the mud and gravel we get around here. Not much use for commuting tho' as It wouldn't fit in the station cycle locker or on the train. Not being able to see over hedges would detract from touring/pleasure use so I'm not sure how much I'd really use one.
As for visibility I think the problem with the horse blanket idea is that you'd just look like a horse i.e. invisible. The only answer is to get more car like. I have various bits of old Land-Rover in my sheds and wonder if I could mount the front grille, head and side lamps on the back of a bike. That ought to get noticed!
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Author: Arch (---.york.ac.uk)
Date: 02-02-2005 08:48
I'd look like a horse? Have you seen how wide a horse's backside is? Thankyou very much! ;-)
I see what you mean of course on country lanes, but I suspect that horses are less common on the city streets of York (Barring the onces pulling tourist carriages), and would therefore be noticeable enough... Alternatively, drivers would be thinking "What on earth is that weirdo wearing?", so I'd be fully lodged in their minds.
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Author: Tony Smith (---.cosh.broadband.ntl.com)
Date: 02-02-2005 13:24
Er, I didn't mean it to sound like that. No offence intended.
Turning your theory around my idea of the Land-Rover look was based on the fact that I live in the country so most people drive normal cars or pickups. I can see now that in a city where everyone drives SUVs I'd just blend in to the background.
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Author: Arch (---.york.ac.uk)
Date: 02-02-2005 17:11
None taken... ;-)
Maybe the only way is to always be exercising a cheetah on a lead when cycling. That way, if you are cut up, you can loose the cheetah, and it'll catch with the car and 'have a word'.
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Author: Tom (---.park-s46b.dslaccess.co.uk)
Date: 02-02-2005 22:11
On my black days I remember an idea I had about 15 years ago about solid fuelled model rockets, mounted in a front carrier, with balls of paint stipper gel in the nose...
Plans can be made available to anybody interested...
---Decades behind, but moving fast---
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Author: Arch (---.york.ac.uk)
Date: 03-02-2005 09:43
Indeed, I seem to remember that Mr Hilldodger has a bike with firing tubes already attached (only he claims they are for mounting a rack...)
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Author: BenKinetics (---.server.ntli.net)
Date: 03-02-2005 09:47
Tom wrote:
> On my black days I remember an idea I had about 15 years ago
> about solid fuelled model rockets, mounted in a front carrier,
> with balls of paint stipper gel in the nose...
>
> Plans can be made available to anybody interested...
>
I think lots of cyclists have that idea ;-) A paintball gun is my other fantasy...
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Author: Seamus (---.pth-as3.dial.plus.net)
Date: 03-02-2005 19:49
Used to know a bloke who had an Sigg bottle of paint stripper on a handlebar bottlerack which he flicked at irksome cars.
Mind you, his own bikes paint was stripped noticeably andhe suffered alarmingly from Dermatitis on his hands.
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Author: steve green (---.server.ntli.net)
Date: 03-02-2005 20:08
An old girlfriend ( she wasn't old: it was a long time ago) carried a tube of cheese spread in her bar bag. She lived in London, and often caught up with errant drivers at traffic lights. She would squirt cheese over their windscreens.
When they turned the wipers on...
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Author: Arch (---.york.ac.uk)
Date: 04-02-2005 09:22
Nice, but a dreadful waste of cheese! Unless you tucked crackers under the wipers as well and then you'd have an automactic cheese-spread-on-crackers-machine.
How about toothpaste - one with as many colours as possible in it... Or ready-mix polyfilla...
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Author: Gary Mc (---.ispnetbilling.com)
Date: 04-02-2005 14:10
All of this talk about squirting things on cars whose drivers you find offensive would be pretty risky out here in the "wild west" of the U.S., especially the wild urban west.
Cars are dangerous enough accidentally without turning the drivers murderous.
Regards,
Gary
Post Edited (07-02-2005 15:57)
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Author: steve green (---.server.ntli.net)
Date: 04-02-2005 18:03
Gary, I know! The trouble is that anger sometimes pushes us over the edge.
Arch, when I told my wife, she suggested toothpaste, too.
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Author: Arch (---.york.ac.uk)
Date: 07-02-2005 09:19
If only I were the seventh daughter of a seventh daughter or something, I think the ability to curse people would be really neat... Not pins-in-a-doll voodoo, just a muttered "May your front off-side tyre develop a slow flat, your dinner explode messily inside the microwave and the third step on your stairs develop an unshiftable squeak...."
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Author: steve green (---.server.ntli.net)
Date: 07-02-2005 17:38
When I were a lad, my Mum was driving us to collect my dad from work, when we were carved up by a lorry. Mum, being a robust Yorkshirewoman, muttered," I hope his bloody wheel falls off. " We caught up with it, miles later, with much amusement: a wheel HAD come off!
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Author: Mary Arneson (---.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net)
Date: 13-02-2005 14:54
With a choice between two and three wheels, it becomes easier to avoid going to 4.
Speaking of amphibious trikes, we saw a Hase Lepus with floats and a sail pedaling down the Danube in May 2001. The Swiss guy riding it was headed for the Black Sea, but we never heard how it worked out. Photo at http://www.velomobiling.net/modules.php?set_albumName=WeirdStuff&op;=modload&name;=gallery&file;=index&include;=view_album.php
Mary
*Osell Long-wheel-base recumbent
*Cab-Bike velomobile
*RANS Screamer tandem
*Brompton/Junik folding recumbent
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Author: nasz (---.bulldogdsl.com)
Date: 15-02-2005 17:52
Well that's sorted me out!
Decided it was about to time to get a bent and wasn't sure about 2 or 3 wheels. Now I know, definitely 2 for me! Mostly city cycling and a long jaunt down the A4 to work daily.
Now just got to find a decent second hand one!
The worlds number one, second placer!
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Author: wazabike (---.sympatico.ca)
Date: 11-04-2005 23:16
Steve you are so right about the center of gravity being the key to stability on a bent. I found this out in my early builds. However design is more complicated than the distance from the rear wheel. Wheelbase and seat hight and brakes, fork angle, fork rake and frame design all interact to give the resulting handling characteristics. One of the reasons I do not have a trike model yet is that the third wheel throws in a half a dozen other design considerations. I am not one to copy someone else's design there is no challenge to that. I would like to come up with a trike or a quad soon but it would be so complicated it would be worth three times the price of my current 2 wheeler. Which by the way is extremely stable.
Have a great day
Rob Wazny
WAZABIKE
Only in Canada eh!
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Author: wazabike (---.sympatico.ca)
Date: 11-04-2005 23:33
I didn't realize my website is not posted with each post anyway here it is for those who are interested.
[ url=http://www.wazabike.itgo.com ]WAZABIKE on the web[/url ]
Have a great day
Rob Wazny
WAZABIKE
Only in Canada eh!
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Author: wazabike (---.sympatico.ca)
Date: 11-04-2005 23:43
What's up with that I posted the URL as Peter suggests but there are spaces that have to be removed. I figured it out.
WAZABIKE on the web
Have a great day
Rob Wazny
WAZABIKE
Only in Canada eh!
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Author: Steve H (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 01-05-2005 09:08
Just in case I'm ever rich enough to afford a recumbent trike (which I'd probably go for, rather than a bike), does anyone know whether there are any fairings available for Trice recumbents, either specifically meant for them, or fittable to them?
My other car is also a bike.
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Author: Gary Mc (---.ispnetbilling.com)
Date: 02-05-2005 01:13
The Windwrap site shows a Trice Micro with a Windwrap fairing mounted. I have their trike fairing for my GTO. The fairing mounting hardware is very adjustable.
http://www.windwrap.com/trikes.htm
Regards,
Gary
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